In Conversation with Hayat Sindi
Dr. Hayat Sindi is a leading figure in biotechnology, focusing her research on medical testing. Her academic journey took her through King's College London, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Harvard University. In 2001, she received her PhD in biotechnology at Cambridge University, making history as the first woman from the Persian Gulf to fulfil this achievement.
In 2007, Dr Sindi co-founded the non-profit Diagnostics for All, which creates low-cost devices to be used in developing countries to help with diagnosing diseases, including the Magnetic Acoustic Resonance Sensor (MARS). In 2011, Dr Sindi founded another organisation, the Institute for Imagination Ingenuity (i2 institute), which strives to encourage science education and innovation in younger generations. Additionally, in 2012, UNESCO selected Sindi as a Goodwill Ambassador to encourage education, especially among young women, in STEM fields.
In a recent interview with Dr Hayat Sindi, Youth STEM Matters volunteers Jahnavi Giridhar and Teresa Chan, gained insights into her life and work. Dr Sindi shared insightful perspectives on her journey into biotechnology, the different organisations she has founded, her work as a Goodwill Ambassador, and how we can encourage more women and youth into the science world.
Dr. Hayat Sindi
Jahnavi: The first question we have for you is, what or who inspired you to choose the career path of biotechnology?
Hayat: My inspiration started when I was really little, around five years old. I had a great father who passed away 10 years ago. My father loved reading and he always used to bring me great books and magazines from the library to read. He wanted me to get into the idea of reading. It could be murder mystery books, or anything. He would also discuss the content we read about – he wanted me to exercise my brain and get some knowledge.
I read about famous scholars in the Western and Eastern civilisations, and, of course, I read about Marie Curie and Einstein. I used to ask my father, “Why can’t I see anybody who looks like me?”. He used to tell me that with education, you could reach anything you want in life, and one day I could be like them. I loved my school days as they were the best days of my life. I went to a public school with 40 students in one class. However, I had an amazing teacher who encouraged me, who built confidence in me, and who treated me like an equal.
From there, I eventually wanted to pursue science and I wanted to do pharmacology. Unfortunately, in those days, I was not able to study pharmacology as a major: I had to do it as part of medicine or pharmacy. I did my first year of medicine and realised I didn't want to be a doctor – I wanted to be a scientist and major in pharmacology. So, I asked my father to send me abroad.
I come from Makkah, Saudi Arabia, from a very traditional family of eight children. In the beginning, it was a struggle to convince my family because I was the first one to leave home and get educated. I started convincing them when I was in high school, and it took two years to do so. At first, my mum said no, and it wasn’t because she was against education: my family loved education. It was because of reasons like travelling alone, a new environment with a different culture, a different language, and a different educational standard. They were eventually convinced because they knew that I wanted to study for a noble purpose.
Jahnavi: A follow-up to that question is, could you tell us about your experiences with education, and how they influenced your career path into biotechnology?
Hayat: My dream was to make a difference in the field of pharmacology and become a scientist. However, when I began applying for A-Levels, everybody rejected me because my age was not appropriate for high school. This was because, in Saudi Arabia, we do things differently. I had to study and learn English. Forget PhD and undergraduate, this was the hardest exam I did. It was also hard because it was going to decide my future. Back when I left home, I mentioned to the dean of my college that I wanted to take a gap year. The dean said that if I decided to leave, I should consider myself expelled. So there was no way for me to go back and the only choice I had was to keep going, pass and succeed.
Nobody wanted me but I always believed in myself. So I thought, what was the ingredient they [admissions] needed to accept me? To meet their criteria, I completed my A-Levels and learnt English. Initially, I was rejected by all universities, but I always believed that if you walk the road, you will eventually find the door open for you at the end.
Fortunately, I called King's College, which was my dream college because I had read a book about the discovery of DNA between Maxwell Lab in King's College and Cavendish Lab in Cambridge. They accepted me conditionally over the phone, and I could hardly believe it. The day I entered the university was the happiest day of my life. I used to always be in the front row and eager to learn.
As I progressed, I did well, and in my second year, I became the student representative. In my third year, I was selected to set up the Thoracic Medicine Department at King's College Hospital. My task involved setting up a laboratory from scratch and conducting experiments on a drug from Germany for asthma patients. I focused on inflammation and asthma because my father was suffering from asthma. I used to see him struggling to breathe when he got asthma attacks and I wished I could do something to help him. I was lucky because my teachers tasked me with conducting clinical trials on this drug, but the problem with this drug was that it had severe side effects on the heart. My job was to study the drug's impact on cells and find methods to minimise its side effects by reducing the dosage. I completed this task with honours.
While conducting clinical trials on this drug, I realised that our existing equipment and technology were limited in understanding the complexities of the human body. It was then that I aspired to become an inventor, developing tools to discover the fantastic makeup of our cells and bodies. I came across a post to pursue a PhD in biosciences, even though I had already received offers to study Parkinson's Disease at Oxford and angiogenesis at Cambridge University. I wanted to make tools, and everybody was surprised because I had not studied physics or engineering, but I wanted to learn about biotechnology.
During my interview at Cambridge, I told them that I have a background in cells and that I have always loved physics and engineering. After that, I didn't hear anything from them. They might have wondered why I was applying to do a PhD in bioscience and biotechnology when I don’t have the background for it. But I had told them that biotechnology is about understanding the concepts behind physics, engineering, and biology. Sometimes, marrying those concepts together is very difficult. This led me to accept the offer from Hammersmith. My graduation at King's College was a proud moment for me, with my parents by my side.
One day, a postman arrived with a letter and I saw the envelope was from Cambridge University. At first, I thought that it was going to be a rejection. I was sitting in my car with my father next to me, and I opened the letter, which said, "We are pleased to offer you the grant from BBSRC, given the condition that you pass the first year in engineering." It was amazing, but I thought of it as a gamble. On one hand, I had this amazing offer from Hammersmith, one of the best places to study inflammation. Alternatively, I could go to Cambridge and make a difference in the diagnostic world for biotechnology, though there was no guarantee that I would succeed. So I looked at my father and I asked him what I should do. He asked me where my heart was, and I said to him that my heart wanted to do biotechnology. He said, "Then it's Cambridge," and that is how I chose the field of biotechnology.
Teresa: That is an incredibly motivational story. Your journey is truly remarkable, as it highlights the importance of perseverance and dedication in pursuing our passions. As the first Saudi Arabian female to achieve a PhD in biotechnology from Cambridge University, and as the first from the Persian Gulf in the field, could you please share the challenges you faced in pursuing your scientific career and how you managed to overcome them?
Hayat: It was tough because biotechnology is a male-dominated field. When I arrived at Cambridge, colleagues and people around me believed that I would only stay there for three months, and then I would quit. They doubted my commitment and suggested that biology or another field would be more suitable for me, implying that biotechnology was not for me. Being from a culture where the belief is that Allah is the creator of everything around us, I encountered concerns about lacking the spirit to explore new things, and because of that, I was not going to be a good scientist.
“Improving health... involves collaboration, it involves not getting entrenched into those silos, it involves disruptors.”
In response, I explained to them that, contrary to their beliefs, many verses in the Quran encouraged us to question, explore, observe, analyse, to challenge our intellect, which is the core of Islam. At the same time, I made it clear that we are not here to discuss who created the cell in this way. I believe that Allah created it, maybe Mother Nature or some other external force did. Instead, I emphasised that we are here to discuss why it is being created this way, so we can understand the cells better and design our drugs better.
The way to handle such situations is not to "talk the talk" but to "walk the walk". You should carry on and show them you are capable and that there is no difference between you (as a female) and a male. At the same time, religion is never an obstacle. Personal beliefs are deeply individual, and in my case, my interest in science has strengthened my belief in my creator, Allah. In the verses of the Quran, it is mentioned that God created humans in this magnificent way and that is exactly the core of biotechnology. We understand, observe, and create: such as programming cells to identify deficiencies or equipping them to function as their immune systems against diseases. This is the magnificence of science – exploring and understanding our creativity and curiosity. That is why I kept going and continued with my work in Cambridge.
And how can different global health stakeholders support improving health through this platform effectively? Well, again, I think it involves collaboration, it involves not getting entrenched into those silos, it involves disruptors. Of course, youth is often seen as one of the main disruptors. But I think you can continue to be a disruptor within different hats as you go into your careers and as you get older, as well. I still consider myself to be a disruptor. Ultimately, disruptors are needed throughout, and they can come in all different shapes and sizes, and at different times as well.
Jahnavi: Your answers to both of the questions were inspiring, and your career path itself has been really impressive too. You have also created a biochemical sensor called MARS (Magnetic Acoustic Resonance Sensor) for disease diagnosis. Can you tell us more about its design process and the impact you hoped it would have?
Hayat: MARS was there already, but I intended to develop it further and use my skills as a pharmacologist. I was going to enhance the little details in the makeup of the device. It used to be a huge device, so we tried to shrink it to make it look like a piece of round glass. The Biosensors field is one of the most complicated, and it involves sensing things by sound, light, thermal change, chemical reaction or electrical reaction. For example, in a glucose sensor, the reaction between a drop of blood, the sensor, and electricity gives you a change in number. It looks simple, but to do something like that took about 25 years, to understand how blood can react with electricity and so on. When you create an acoustic sensor, you need to have gold, also called gold fingers, on top of the device to create the wave. It is made from a special material called piezoelectric material. However, MARS is made purely from glass and does not require the golden top: you have the magnet in the bottom. When you test your blood cells, the fluid doesn't have to react with anything electrical and give you false results, because everything has got to do with the biological layer.
I developed that and applied it to understanding how DNA can change with temperature and acidic conditions. These types of changes that we cannot dream of detecting can be tested using acoustic sensors. From there, I applied it to how we try to understand cancer. The sensor has also been used to understand the prion protein. It was always believed that acoustic sensors work in a dry environment. These were the first acoustic sensors designed to test for pressure. Through my PhD, I helped open many doors to different fields in acoustics, and the theories have been studied by many from China, Canada and America.
Teresa: Yes, it helps us learn more about it. We have another question about your non-profit organisation ‘Diagnostics for All’, which has made remarkable strides in the developing world. Could you elaborate on its mission, goals, the difference it has made, and what additional changes you believe are important to revolutionise health care in developing nations?
Hayat: After completing my PhD, I relocated to Harvard and joined a fantastic lab called the Whiteside Lab in the 2000s. This lab is fantastic for fostering true innovation, particularly in the realm of what I call “social innovation”. Since then, I have developed a strong desire to become a scientist who helps society because “necessity is the mother of innovation”. I became aware that the most needy people in the world are deprived of the benefits of science and technology. This realisation prompted me to ask my father why this disparity existed and how technology can change their life for the better.
I wanted to make a difference in developing countries using the sensor, because it is very cheap and effective. Earlier on, I came up with the application that I wanted to test for liver dysfunction. In the West, patients with TB (tuberculosis) or HIV often undergo complex treatment regimens involving multiple antibiotics and drugs, sometimes requiring up to 20 tablets. To monitor the potential side effects of these drugs, patients visit the hospital every week or two for blood tests, particularly to assess liver function as the medications can pose a risk to the liver. By detecting any signs of liver damage, the drugs will be changed until the right combination is found; even if one soul dies, it is important. But if you are living in a rural area of African countries, or other developing countries, 5 million die. Big difference. In the hospitals, sometimes you find one doctor looking after many patients. Sometimes, in a poor area, patients may need to walk for weeks to reach any labs. Then when they come, take the drug and go back home, they find severe pain in the liver and stop taking the drug. TB is contagious, so it can affect families, affect children, and they could die from the disease, and that's why there's a big loss of 5 million people.
Motivated by this stark disparity, I was inspired to create a company for diagnostics. As a piece of paper with a drop of blood, it can give you a change in colour. The intensity of colour can translate to information about the liver enzymes, because if somebody has a problem with the liver, they will have elevated liver enzymes in the blood.
“The SDGs are a universal call, a road map urging everyone to look after our planet, to make our world better.”
At Cambridge University, I was perceived as the top achiever in the scientific field, instilling a sense of excellence, and this mindset was further reinforced when I arrived at Harvard University. Those environments can create a bubble of privilege with access to the best labs, unlimited funding, top elite networks, and the opportunity to go to the best conferences. But I said to myself, this is not the true scientist I am: true scientists will go on to reach people, something that I wanted since I was little – I wanted to reach communities. I wanted to create a company, a non-profit, to reach out to people. Then my professor said, “Okay, you are going to go to Harvard Business School”. Again, I was out of my comfort zone, but I didn't care. There was a program at Harvard Business School known as the 'Commercialization of Science and Technology,' focused on how you can transfer an idea from the lab to that community. In Muslim culture, wasting time is haram. Currently, I am learning all the seeds, I'm writing a patent and collecting dust. I wanted to have my patent reach the community, and so it was a two-year study at Harvard Business School. I entered the Harvard Social Enterprise competition with my scientific and business team, and I was the leader of that team. It is a very prestigious competition that focuses on your invention, how the invention will reach the community, how to raise money, how to grow, and what the benefits of it will be. So part of it is very scientific, and part of it is how to make it work in the real world.
During this time, another competition called ‘MIT 100K’ was taking place. There were two competing universities holding competitions, and I entered both. Both competitions had their different focuses – MIT 100K was focused on the private sector, and Harvard Social Enterprise focused on social enterprise and innovation. I tried to organise a team. Nobody wanted to be on my team. They thought I was crazy. When I pitched the invention, the professor asked me, ‘What do you want, Hayat?’ and I said that I wanted to create a team to enter both competitions, MIT and Harvard. He laughed and said, “No one before has won both competitions; anyway, good luck.” This was the first year he organised his team. The students thought that if the professor laughed at me, it meant that I had no chance of winning, so they didn’t want to join my team. I had one week to announce my team, and I couldn't find anyone. I had to search for the right people who were passionate like me and beg them to be in my team. I needed a student from MIT, so when we found him, we carried on with both competitions at the same time. And guess what, we won both of them. Everybody said they had witnessed history.
After 19 years of MIT establishing this competition, it was the first time ever for a non-profit organisation to win the first prize, and it was ‘Diagnostics For All’. That's the thing, there are people looking to make money and bigger profits. Unfortunately, even now, the scientific world is represented by materialistic things and money. It was the first time that Harvard gave the prize to a Harvard invention. Our win made the professor feel great because it was the team from his lab that won. After our win, we got to go and ring the bell at the New York Stock Exchange and all that glory. For me, the most important thing was the scientific community recognising that even though the sensor was for a developing country, it doesn't mean it has lower standards. My message was that making something less expensive doesn't equal lower quality. The sensor costs only $1 and can allow a doctor to visit 20 or 200 homes at the same time, and take action.
The reason I wanted this recognition was to seek some funding, because how can I vouch for the technology if I don't win? The competition lasted two years, and every month, there were 8 to 10 judges who questioned you on what you developed; then you moved to the next stage, and then the next month, you had completely new judges. Imagine that for two years! Whoever wins deserves it, because both sides are doing the same thing. Of course, I faced challenges and I cried every day. I used to cry and go to Professor Sato. She's amazing – she's the first Japanese woman to head the biotech company Vertex. I used to go and see her every day. She used to have a sofa in her lab, and she would ask me to come and sit down. I used to tell her “Oh, look what they've done to me. They don’t listen to me. They don’t want to do that. I have to do everything myself.” I used to cry, and she would say nothing, she would type on her computer. After I finished crying, she would ask me, “Okay, what are you going to do?” And I would say to her, “I'll try again.” She’d reply “Good girl, go ahead.” I’d come back again the next day until I managed to help myself because it was so out of my comfort zone.
For the first three months, I felt like the most stupid person because when you go to those businesses as a scientist, it's a completely different feeling. I thought to myself, I wasn’t trained for this. However, my professor believed in me; he used to give me extra tutorials because he believed that this technology could make a difference. So, my message from this is: you have to go out of your comfort zone if you want to make a difference. You need to go and learn something different. Of course, it's something different that is going to add to your skills and take you to the first level. Always surround yourself with people who believe in you, because that's what you need, especially in this entrepreneurship journey. Entrepreneurship is lonely, scary, and risky, but you need to find similar people who believe in you to help you with the journey.
Jahnavi: We appreciate your answers to those questions as they are incredibly encouraging and motivating for anybody wanting to go into biotechnology. Our next question is about your involvement in various advisory boards focused on the sciences or applications of sustainable development, including the United Nations (UN) Scientific Advisory Board. Could you elaborate on the role you believe biotechnology will play in advancing sustainable development?
Hayat: Excellent question. In 2015, a new project was launched by the UN, one that every single one of the 193 UN member countries agreed on – the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) – where it was clear that science, innovation and technology would be at the forefront. Before then, I was an advisor to Ban Ki-Moon (Former UN Secretary-General), where I was one of 25 scientists elected to the UN secretary, and my specific role was to see how science and technology could be at the heart of accomplishing the SDGs.
The SDGs are a universal call, a road map urging everyone to look after our planet, to make our world better: in terms of hunger, ensuring everybody has the right to electricity, water, education, health, equality, innovation and so on. They are all in the 17 goals of the UN. To accomplish the SDGs, besides business and finance, you need an amazing out-of-the-box type of idea. If you want to create electricity for everyone, you need to have a cheap idea for renewable energy to create that. If you want to create health for all, you need to make the diagnostics affordable, accessible, and renewable. That’s why you need to have scientists, engineers, technologists and innovators.
“I’ve always challenged myself to direct my talent, my gift, and my training to solve the world’s most challenging problems. That’s part of creating a sustainable world – it’s developing how we can reproduce and scale, using out-of-the-box technology that is affordable and does not have to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes you can build on existing technology and sometimes you can combine certain technologies. It’s about thinking “How can I become creative here?””
I was lucky to be part of a team that made sure that science can move hand-in-hand with policymakers, to unite the vision and address the challenges we face, especially in developing countries. I still encourage the local communities to invent because, unfortunately, I learned that if your idea doesn't come from the right university or group, people won’t listen. If you are coming from the developed parts of the world, people will listen. But for me, when I started within the Islamic Development Bank and the i2 Institute, the best innovations came from the local community, because they know first-hand about the challenges and the limitations. Being poor doesn't mean you're stupid: there are limited resources, however, there are so many amazing technologies people have come up with despite this. I have seen how local communities purify water, and how they can generate electricity from dirt or bacteria. With amazing technology like this, you can provide 2 hours of electricity in a rural area: you give a woman the chance to walk back home safely; you're giving two students the time to study for an extra two hours; and you've given a doctor the chance to operate on or visit a patient. We take things for granted. Even when I left Harvard, the concept of social innovation was not cultivated.
I've always challenged myself to direct my talent, my gift, and my training to solve the world's most challenging problems. That's part of creating a sustainable world – it’s developing how we can reproduce and scale, using out-of-the-box technology that is affordable and does not have to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes you can build on existing technology and sometimes you can combine certain technologies. It’s about thinking “How can I become creative here?”
Teresa Chan: It's motivating to hear more about the future and that we can use our education to make some change in the world. We know that you founded another organisation called the i2 Institute. What inspired you to found the Institute for Imagination and Ingenuity in addition to Diagnostics For All and how did you manage to reach out to communities that needed it?
Hayat: When I left Harvard, after I saw the success of Diagnostics for All, I used the prize money to hire a CEO. I thought, what can I bring back home? What can I bring back to the developing countries? How can I use what I learned? I feel that every single scientist – including all of you, although I don’t know you in-depth – needs to do business. You need to understand more about the real world. How am I going to create a company? How am I going to create my team? What type of investor will I look for?
When I first started my company here in Cambridge, I was naive. My investor was the biggest holder of the company and I couldn't get any other funding because they would stop theirs. They didn't understand the culture of biotechnology, and I lost everything. At that time I was so arrogant. I only wanted someone to believe in my technology, I wanted to do my work, I wanted to patent, and that was it. I didn't have anyone in Cambridge to teach me how I could build a community.
I felt like so many scientists in our developing country, and especially in the Middle East, had no clue how to take their ideas to the next level. So, I created the Institute for Imagination and Ingenuity, i2 institute, and started attracting certain scientists, particularly social innovators, to teach them about this road, the ecosystem of entrepreneurship, link them to investors, and help them understand how to link to the patent office. I created this atmosphere with the Harvard Innovation Lab and MIT Media Lab,with the help of BCW, McKinsey, PopTech, and National Geographic, based in Jeddah and America. I work to give this type of opportunity to people, so they can fulfil their potential and help their communities and societies.
Jahnavi: Your work has been incredibly inspiring, I'm assuming, for so many people across the world. I'm pretty sure I can say for all of us in this meeting that it has been very encouraging to hear your story. Our next question is, as a Goodwill Ambassador for Sciences at UNESCO, and also the founder of the i2 Institute, what do you think is the key to accessible and engaging science education? Also, how can scientists effectively communicate their research and engage with the public to improve and promote scientific literacy?
Hayat: That is a great question. It also relates to inspiring women and encouraging STEM education as well. We need to make sure students from young ages have the opportunity to love STEM and explore it. There is a scientist in each one of us, and exploring is the makeup of our intellect. Human intellect is about questioning, analysing and observing whatever subject you want to pursue in life, whether it’s literature, physics, or medicine. You cannot just walk into it without questioning why you are there and what you want to do. We also still need to see relatable role models. I sometimes ask young students, aged between 10 and 11, to draw a picture of a scientist – an overwhelming majority draw a picture of Albert Einstein. Hollywood always promotes the idea that a professor has to be old and geeky. They also have to be a man. I think that, if we want to encourage STEM education and closeness to the community, we need to do it from home, from school, and we need to encourage young people with diverse role models.
As a Goodwill Ambassador, that's how I contribute. We are very comfortable living on the shoulders of our past scientists, on the giants, but can anybody dare to challenge their theories? Not all theories are acceptable.There are so many things that have not yet been discovered. There is still so much we need to question and analyse. I think living on the shoulders of the previous giants sometimes limits our true breakthrough innovation.
Science doesn't look at your culture, religion, colour, or gender, although those may give each of us the values, the concrete foundation about why we're here. We are here to move towards humanity, and we should all work together to exchange skills and understand each other. For example, women are still underrepresented in science and, in my experience, women like to do practical things – they want to see the effect their work directly has on people. We need to see the story behind science and technology – the human touch. Now, how are we going to relate science to society? You have to leave your fingerprint on this earth. That is very important for me because it’s a foundation for social innovation. Social innovation is key for the world around you, like the mRNA technology used against COVID-19. This social innovation, this biotechnology, was needed to discover a vaccine quickly to help us get through the pandemic. This is how you link science and society together. Social innovation needs to be funded enough and taught in school. Science is very small, but there’s so much room for everybody. It doesn't matter where they come from, whether they come from prestigious universities or not. There’s always room for their input and intellectual power.
Teresa: I have two last questions: What do you envision as the biggest challenges and opportunities for the scientific community in the coming years? And what advice will you give to the youth scientific innovators underrepresented backgrounds who want to lead an impactful change in the world?
Hayat: Great! First, let’s start with the opportunities. In terms of biotechnology, I think that, as long as we live on this earth, it will be one of the most important types of science because it uses living organisms to enhance our quality of life. For example, bread is biotechnology. We use yeast, a type of fungi, to create some type of reaction; add some sugar to make a dough, and then make bread. Also, our gut is full of bacteria. It helps absorb certain food and make it an energy source for our body. Penicillin is a great discovery for biotechnology, and it was all done by chance in the lab. We’re now also using bacteria to generate insulin purer than when we were using animals.
Biotechnology now has a wider scope, in things like agriculture, water purification, health, messenger RNA, and vaccination. I feel that the opportunities in biotechnology, in terms of health, are going to be expanding and extending quality of life. Of course, we're going to have engineering, so genetic engineering is also going to be the future: how we understand programming ourselves, understanding how to reinject life into cells that have already died, like in Alzheimer's, and how to switch off certain genes and cancer cells. At the same time, there is artificial intelligence: how can you create a sensor, how can you create a device that can do your work? By using the computer, how can we discover the genome makeup of our body? So, artificial intelligence is going to be taking a huge part in our lives, but how are you going to make all of them human-centric? How are we going to make them with the human touch? Then there are the ethical, moral, and social aspects of all types of technology. Technology is great, but it needs to be balanced with social movements, with human creativity, to make it human-centric. How are you going to protect that type of technology from becoming too commercialised? You can see it's touching our lives, health, governance, and education, and we cannot live without science and technology. But the difficulty is learning how to use technology to purely help humanity and enhance our quality of life.
“My advice to you is to keep your thoughts healthy. Cultivate the good things. Motivate yourself by surrounding yourself with the right people. Dig deep into your foundation. I’m sure all of you are amazing people, so go back to your roots, your values, why you are here, and why you want to do this. There’s always a great purpose for it. What is your purpose? And sometimes it’s okay if it doesn’t work out. It is not the end of the world. There are so many ways you can make a difference in the world.”
My advice, if I was the same as you and only started my path, is that challenge doesn't disappear. Every day I wake up there is another challenge. Every year things get more complicated, and you’ll have more sophisticated challenges, but at the end of the day, you need to go back to your roots and go back to why you do this. Every day, talk to yourself about your intention, revisit the purpose of what you're doing in life before you go to bed. When you wake up in the morning, ask yourself: Why am I doing what I'm doing? Did I achieve what I wanted to do? Fame and recognition always come if you do well. But how am I affecting people? Did I make a difference?
People will try to discourage you or demotivate you about anything you do or have done. The way you look, the way you talk, the way you dress, where you come from, what you want to be in the future, which part of the world you come from, what’s your skin colour, whatever. And it’s very easy to fall into the same way of thinking and the same trap. But my advice to you is to keep your thoughts healthy. Cultivate the good things. Motivate yourself by surrounding yourself with the right people. Dig deep into your foundation. I'm sure all of you are amazing people, so go back to your roots, your values, why you are here, and why you want to do this. There’s always a great purpose for it. What is your purpose? And sometimes it's okay if it doesn't work out. It is not the end of the world. There are so many ways you can make a difference in the world.
Sometimes we don't know what is best for us. But do not hold your purpose in life so tightly, because it could change. Something could have happened to you, but it isn't going to dismantle you. Hold your values, because you will face challenges in life. And go back to your roots, that you want to make a difference. If you wanted to be an engineer, for example, but it didn't work out, what more could you do?
Enjoy life, enjoy the unknown. Keep going strong. Believe in yourself. Be confident. Even if all the doors are shut in front of you, there will always be an open door somewhere. Do not take it to heart, do not become ill or sick, do not envy people, do not feel bitter about things. Struggle is part of your journey, but you are doing all the things that are on the journey, by guiding somebody else towards a better life. So keep going strong. Have a purpose and follow your dream.
My final piece of advice is to have that special part of you. I love yoga, and I love the gym. I love cooking, sometimes I go horseback riding, I love meeting people, and I love culture. And, at the same time I love what comes from my culture and my religion. So it's a combination, we are a combination of many things, and it's great when you have good people surrounding you.
I hope what I said resonated with some of you. And I am here, whatever any advice anybody needs, I'm here. I feel like I haven't even fully accomplished what I want to do. I started my new company called ‘Institute for Quality’: it is a consulting firm based on science, technology, and innovation. I want to advise developing countries in terms of science, education, health and evaluation. How to create the right policy, integrated with execution, and how to make policies to change health education and make the education system better. I feel like I have the tools to understand development, but I want to give them the right policy and strategy. So as I mentioned, I'm here for any advice, but I believe that all of you are going to be amazing for your society, for your culture, and for humanity.
Jahnavi: That was a really inspiring answer to our final question, and I think your advice is definitely going to be helpful for all the people who read this interview. I don't think we have any more questions for you; I hope you've had a good time during this interview, and thank you so much for agreeing to it. We've learned a lot, and hopefully, everyone who reads the article will as well. We really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us, and we hope you have a great rest of the day.
Hayat: My pleasure, and I hope that I can see you all one day face to face. I was and I'm always going everywhere, and it's the best thing when you see people face to face. But of course, I enjoyed it very much today. It's been the highlight of my day, my week, and my whole month!
